G’day mate

Found this really interesting. Thanks. I have a mate doing my old Mazda E2000 van for me. He’s had it 6 weeks and is doing it in Acrylic which I was a bit disappointed in as I thought 2 pack was better and easier to maintain.

Then again he’s doing me a great deal. I have paid him $2,300 approx and he promises it will be the bees knees. He’s spent alot of time on preperation.

So you think a good cut and polish in Acrylic can look just as good as 2 pack?

Should be interesting. Good luck with your car mate.

Hi Martin,
I am glad you found the article interesting. I have had really good results with Acrylic lately and as long as there has been plenty of coats applied you can give it a light sand with 1500 wet and dry paper and then use a cutting compound with a machine buff and then hand polish it with just a polish, not a cut and polish and it will look as good as a 2 pack respray.
I think the advantage with 2 pack is that it dries harder than Acrylic and therefore is a bit more durable but achieving a nice flat finish with 2 pack is an art in itself! Have a look at a brand new car and even they have a certain amount of ‘orange peel’ in the paint surface and I think this detracts from the overall finish when compared to Acrylic.
Thank you for your encouraging words and I wish you all the best with your vehicle as well, I’m sure with a bit of elbow grease it will look great. Please let us know how the van turns out.

G’day mate, Nice article!

One question I do have is I want to spray acrylic paint but not sure which size compressor to buy. Would I need 60 litre tank with 12CFM or similar? I haven’t got a spray gun either but thought I’d select that after deciding on the compressor size. Cheers.

Hey Dave,
I use the exact size compressor that you are talking about – 60 litre tank and 12cfm flow capacity. It does work pretty hard while spraying so I wouldn’t chance it with anything of less capacity.
If you are looking for a reasonably priced spray gun I bought a gravity feed one off ebay and from memory it cost me around $80. Obviously it doesn’t compare with a gun that costs several hundred but I found it to be good enough for what I was doing so it may be worth your while to have a look there. The VK in the article was painted with that gun and that was my first real attempt using two-pack so I guess the gun can’t be all that bad!
I’m hoping to have more of the article done soon but if there is any other info you need in the meantime don’t hesitate to shoot us an email.

Hi Craig.

Thanks for the confirmation. As I am only doing this once off (but you never know) and am using a flat colour. I was going to attempt to spray a panel at a time for the one’s I can take off (doors, boot, bonnet, scuttle, air vent etc) and the rest of the body including door jams in one hit with a lot of masking! I thought a 12CFM compressor could cut doing that?!

Can you mention brand names and model of the gravity spray gun you used? I have seen Star brand mentioned as a low cost but acceptable performance gun.

All the best with your car project.

Dave,
I think you have the right idea with doing a panel at a time. Apart from the work taking them off and on it is heaps easier to spray a car this way, that’s what I have found anyway. A 12cfm compressor will definitely handle that.
The gun that I used has no name on it and I tossed the packaging a long time ago however I will track down my usb cable for my phone (still haven’t bought a new digital camera!) and send you a photo of it when I get five minutes. I’m pretty sure they are still on ebay, they are the ones with the pressure guage attached to the air inlet.( I don’t use that pressure gauge though as I have a water separator/pressure gauge setup that I think is more accurate). For a cheap, dodgy type gun it really surprised me.
I have also heard that Star brand guns are excellent and I have heard of them being used in panel shops so I think if you can get your hands on one it would be worth while.
Please keep us updated as you go, I would love to hear/see how you get on with it.
Good luck!

Hi Craig, I am re-spraying a holden one tonner,and wanted to know if painting acrylic over 2 pack or vice versa, would cause any problems. Years ago I remember painting a filter cover and it reacted, not sure if it was acrylic over enamel or the other way around. pleased if you could help.

Hi John,
The problem that you talk about is when acrylic is sprayed over enamel. It goes all blistered and refuses to adhere to the surface. I have heard of a primer that you can use that allows you to paint the acrylic over enamel but I have not used it personally.
Hope this helps clear things up for you.

Craig

Hi Craig,

I recently tried may hand at repairing a panel and some spray painting from a can. After the usual surface preparation, I applied serveral coats of the colour, which is a pearl (metallic). The result seems a bit rough rather than smooth. Should metallics be sanded between coats?
Then I put the clear top coat on, several coats of this and it does not look glossy at all. The surface looks dull and not smooth. Does it need fine sandpaper or hand cut and polish?
By the way I am confused about my spray primer surfacer. It says it is ok for bare metal, but to use an etch primer for non-ferrous metals. What type of metal is a car body?
Best of luck with your project.

Hi Reg,
I have found it difficult to get a nice finish using cans also. What I found gave the best results was wet sanding the final colour coat with around 1000 grade wet and dry then applying the clear coats and after giving the paint a day or two to completely cure, sand the surface once again with 1200 paper used wet and then apply a cut and polish by hand. I know this sounds like a lot of work but it is the only thing I have found to give a nice flat, glossy finish.

After a bit of a search around I came across this definition of ferrous and non-ferrous metals;

Ferrous metals contain iron while non-ferrous metals do not contain iron.

As car bodies are prone to rust this indicates that they have predominantly iron content which would class it as a Ferrous metal. Judging from that bit of information I say save your money and give the etch primer a miss!

Craig

Hi Craig,

Thanks for your response. You have certainly taken the confusion out of trying to do a simple spray painting/repair job that is often complicated when one reads several different ‘How to Instructions’ from the paint manufacturer and other very brief ‘how to brochures’ from auto shops.

So, just to clarify, it is perfectly ok to sand down a metallic/pearl paint before it has a clear top coat on it?

The reason I ask, is because I read somewhere that sanding metallics will cause the sanding marks to be magnified when the clear coat is applied.

It also says on the colour spray can to apply the clear coat within 30 minutes of the last colour coat. Is this due to oxidisation of the metallics?

Once again thanks for the info as you have inspired me and I hope it opens more discussions on this topic.

Hey Reg,
I have done a few metallic re-sprays using the techniques that I spoke of in the first email with no adverse effects or noticeable sanding marks when the clear coat was applied but I can only speak from my experiences. I am not sure if this technique is ‘technically correct’, I just know that it works very well for me!
I believe you are correct regarding the possibility of oxidisation of the metallics if the clear coat is not applied within a certain time. I know that metallic paint is designed to be used with the clear coat providing the protection for the colour coats.

If sanding of the colour coats is needed before the clear coat is applied it may be a better idea to use a very fine grade of paper used dry instead of introducing moisture to the surface, I really don’t know.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge on this than myself will read these comments and help us clear that one up.

Hey Craig!

Nice article.

(“If sanding of the colour coats is needed before the clear coat is applied it may be a better idea to use a very fine grade of paper used dry instead of introducing moisture to the surface, I really don’t know”).

Yes you can wet rub the undercoat, colour, and the clear if your using acrylic but dont use anything coarser than 1200 on the colour.

“DONT” wet rub 2pack undercoat this absorbs moisture..its a big no no.

Another way to get around all the trouble of rubbing a clear coat when using acrylic is to spray the colour let it sit for a day (when the temp is around 25+)
Then shoot the clear in 2pack the following day.
The reason for waiting is to let the acrylic thinner evaporate fully before putting on the 2pack otherwise it will stuff up the clear. (They dont mix)
I did a Monaro 5 years ago this way and it still has a killer paint job.

As for using Acrylic clear, if you put on enough coats and wet sand with 1200 then 2000 and use a Buff and Shine compound like K&H and a Meguiars W-7000 red foam pad it will shine as good as 2pack. (Just a lot more work)

This nose cone is in Acrylic.
[IMG]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/conebob/nose2.jpg[/IMG]

Cheers

Hey Craig,
Nice article, Got one question i hope u can help me with, Im interested in painting my cars bonnet, and this may sound newbie but I was just wondering if you think that a $140 2.5 HP, 6.2 CFM compressor from bunnings would be sufficient enough, for the bonnet or other piece? I know you guys were mentioning 12 CFM but would the cheaper bunnings one be able to do the job or is it absolutely ridiculous thinking it would? what do u think?
Thnx mate, just wanna do some research before I do something stupid, any help would be great, thnx again

Hey Bozza,
It is recommended that you use no less than a 10 cfm compressor simply because the compressor will have trouble keeping up with the spraygun and the pressure variations affect the way the paint is applied to the surface. Basically the finish won’t be very good because it won’t be consistent, if that makes sense!
Maybe a better option would be to hire a compressor to do the job? If you shop around it may end up costing less than the Bunnings compressor. Just a thought.

Cheers,
Craig

Hi Craig

Just a note to thank you for your article here. I haven’t got time to finish reading it, but it looks very readable, and sensible. I’m busy painting my truck at the moment, and have been at the mercy of the person selling me the paint.

I will do well to take a better look at your notes later, and I have written down the internet link.

Bye for now,

Lisa Dean

Hi Lisa,
I’m glad to hear you found the article useful. The article is not complete yet and will eventually include a number parts including the actual painting process, panel repairs and such but putting it together in my spare time is working out harder than I thought it would be!
If there is anything in particular that you need to know that isn’t covered in the article please send me an email and I will do my best to help you out.

I am looking at re-spraing a car . Does it matter if I spray arclic over 2 pak do I need to seal it or anything

Hi Craig how are you mate. i have a question. i am going to re-spray my sisters car and will it be ok if i just give to old paint a quick sand so the new paint will stick? reading your notes i think i will use an acrylic. how many coates will i need. i am going to paint it black then put a gloss over top. will two coates of each do th job. will a plain buffer work to get a better shine?

G’day Craig,

I have an old HQ Monaro GTS Coupe…had it for many years and have resolved (it’s new years eve after-all)to tackle the body and paint work myself. I stumbled across this website and have found your advise invaluable. Suitably inspired I think I’ll start work (first thing in the new year) and hope that I can look to you for some advise along the way.

Talk to you soon

Glenn.

Hi Glenn,
A HQ Coupe, you lucky bugger!! And good on you for giving it a go yourself. Anyone can through a heap of dosh at a car and end up with something nice but I am a big believer in giving things a go yourself as the end result is something that you can be truly proud of.

If there is anything I can help you with I will do my best to point you in the right direction, I am not a qualified spray painter but I think I have a fair bit of knowledge on the subject. I am a qualified mechanic, no longer in business due to a back injury so if there is anything mechanical I can help you with also please don’t hesitate to get in touch.

Good luck with the old girl!

Thanks Craig,

Yer, I agree there’s a real sense of achievement from a job well done. My Monaro’s story is a long and sad one (the sort of story you hear all too often), of so called experts and wantabe’s all too willing to separate me from my money in return for endless stalling tactics and crap workmanship. I think the only way to get the job done is to do it myself…what’s the worst that can happen???…maybe blow a few more bucks and some time.

Now I’m aware that the job is going to need some specialised tools (like a speed file for instance) but first things first…do you recommend single or double pluggers? I’d hate to get started with the wrong ridin’ boots. LOL.

Glenn

Glenn,
LOL, plugger choice is very important, if only for appearance than anything else. The double pluggers only come out on special occasions, like when taking the wife to dinner…. at McDonalds!

Seriously though if you take your time and don’t rush the work you will be able to do just as good a job as the professionals and without all the bull**** that comes with it!

hi mate, I dont have a query, just wanted to say awsome article.

Good work : )

Justin

Hey Justin,
Thanks very much for the positive feedback, muchly appreciated!

Hi, I’ve just finished spraying my VR in 2pak metallic.
I spent a good week prepping to get this.
I put 2 coats of clear on and it does not look what I was expecting. The surface looks dull and not overally smooth. (prob surface dust) I was expecting a sharper refection. Is this normal before a buff? Or maybe its major orange peel.
Maybe I will need to hit it with 1200 then then clear? or 2000 grit then buff? I hope not though some people have said a cut and polish/buff will fix it up.
I don’t know what to believe.

Thanks

Leigh,
Please don’t take this as gospel, I’ve only done a handful or so of cars in two-pack but from your pictures it looks like you’ve got a bit of overspray mixed in with the clear, which is just about impossible to avoid without using a well ventilated spray booth.

I’m fairly confident that with a good buff it will come up a treat. My suggestion would be to start with a nice flat area like the bonnet and start with a cut and polish (not just a dedicated buffing/cutting compound) and work slowly around the surface using a slow speed setting on the buffing machine. If you find that it is not ‘cutting’ enough and you’re not left with a nice flat surface you may have to try a cutting compound first, followed by a polish. On areas such as the passengers side doors where the overspray has built up quite a bit it may take a couple of ‘runs’ with the buff to get the paint down flat. Be very careful of your edges too when using the buff! It’s very easy to burn through the paint on any edges or contour lines.

Personally I would be giving the cut and polish a try before resorting to sanding the surface, just don’t leave it too long as the more 2 pack ages the harder it gets.

I hope this has been of some help to you and please let us know how you get on with it.

Dear Craig

Funny I googled myself, and found my post here, and yours as well! lol. My truck was white, and you can see it on the google map at 5 Kialoa Court NARRE WARREN VIC 3805. Now it
’s bright red, and I’m happy with the result. My next job is to cut and polish it. It came up very matt, which is to be expected because I spray painted it in very cold weather.

I am quite an expert at this now.

Don’t quit at completing your project here Craig. Your website is very helpful. Yours sincerely,

Lisa Dean

Hey

Ive just painted a ‘73 vw fastback in acrylic Lacquer.
Used a DevilBiss HVLP gun on a bunning GEC compressor? 40Lt I think

I was tentative re CM/Ft…and small hose size..but I found a chart which basically shows ifyou shorten your use hose the pressure is fine, so I got cut my 30ft house to 15ft.

More than happy with result – just have a water filter at compressor to capture moisture.
Luke

Hey Luke,
Thanks for sharing that tip with us. I guess the least amount of hose the compressor has to ‘fill’ the better. Good to hear that you got a good result.

A Star s770 gun is a replica of an Iowata , a high quality gun . Good finish . About 125.00 .
I picked up a gravity fed for the same price and it has been good too. Avoid the cheap guns at Big W or Supercheap Autos . Get a gun that has 3 adjustments , Air , Fan and volume.

A medium to slow thinner with darker colours in colder weather should avoid blooming . In warmer weather the same should avoid solvent boil. The only problem is dust and insects when it comes to a slower thinner.

Well said, finally a good report on this stuff

Hi Craig
If you could set me right, befor I attemp to respay my silver 1982 WB Deville.

Q 1.How much sanding [over original paint]is needed prior to painting on acrylic ?
Q 2.Do I need to sand lightly between and after top coat?
Q 3.What part “paint to thinners” is used and is it the same on all coats?
Q 4.Must I use a clear coat and if so how soon after top coat?

THANKS
Grant

Hi Grant,
In essence the amount of sanding of the original paint is determined by the condition of the original surface. For example, if the original paint is just faded or getting thin a light sanding to minutely ‘rough-up’ the surface for the new paint to stick to is usually all that is needed.
If the original paint is cracking or crazing (has ‘crows-feet’) the surface will need to be sanded until all the layers that are crazed are removed.
If the car originally had clearcoat over it and it has started to lift and peel all of the affected clearcoat will have to be removed etc. Hope that makes sense.

At the least I suggest lightly sanding the coat before the final coat of colour or before applying the first coat of clear is put on if you are using clear. Using a light wet and dry paper (1200 or 1500 grit) takes any overspray or slight blemishes out of the surface and in my opinion the result at the end is so much better for doing it. The overall surface ends up a lot ‘flatter’ which gives the paint a better shine, in my opinion of course! Some people don’t bother sanding at all between coats and instead buff the hell out of the paint to get a similar result but I don’t like tearing through the paint with a lot of buffing compound or cutting polish as it tends to make the paint quite thin in places.

The common thinning ratio for acrylic is one part paint/clear/primer to one a half parts thinners. In fact every brand of acrylic paint that I have used over the years has used this ratio, but if there is instructions on the tin please read them first as there may be some differences out there.

I imagine that the Silver you are using on you’re WB will be a metallic paint. The majority of metallics must have a clear coat over them so I suggest using clear in this instance. I use clear coat on every acrylic job I do as acrylic is not the ‘hardest’ paint around and any protection you can give it has to be a good thing I think. Once polished the surface will have a better shine when using clear also. I suggest waiting 20-30 minutes after spraying the final colour coat before applying the clear coat, although if you are sanding the final colour coat I would wait a couple of hours before sanding and then another couple of hours for the water from the sanding to completely evaporate ( after you’ve dried the surface as much as you can ) before applying the clear.

I hope this all makes sense to you! These methods may not be used by the professionals any more ( 2 pack seems the norm these days ) but it what works well for me when using acrylic. If there is anything that doesn’t make sense or you have any other questions shoot us another email and I’ll do my best to answer it for you. Good luck!

Hello Craig,
Your (re)spray guide was one of only two that I found on the web,I have extracted the text from each part and edited it in a RTF document.If you are interested I can forward it,it doesn’t have any pictures/fotos but all the same useful.
PS generally speaking (bed)rest is not not good for mobility problems.
Thanks for the article
Brian

Hi Brian,
Sure, I would be interested in you’re document. My methods are only what I have picked up and learnt over the years, whether or not there is better solutions out there I don’t know.
Yeah I know about bed rest being not good for conditions such as mine. I am still going through scans, surgeon’s visits blah blah blah to try and indentify exactly what is happening. I have a very good exercise program mapped out that I do everyday and have Morphine-type patches now that help a lot with the pain. I’ll get there eventually!

Thanks for leaving your comment.

Hi, very interesting website.

I am a little concerned with the practice of sanding metallic coats before the application of clear using 1000 or 1200 grit. Such fine sanding reduces the capacity of the paint to adhere to the surface and may result in the peeling of the clear coat over time. There is also issues with sanding through different layers of paint which will be clearly evident with metallics. Good luck guys.

hello iam going to spray a vintage car i have a iwata spray gun but it keeps spitting when you are spraying i also get over spray iam thinking of getting a star s 770 spray gun suction feed would that do the job i will be spraying acrylic paint or would a gravity feed one be better also what size nozzle would i need for acrylic paint and what would the mix ratio be per pot any help would be great
regards Farmer

Hello again i will be using a 3 cylinder mcmillian compressor will that do the job i will be spaying on the vintage car toyota beige acrylic and where do i start roof first or where
any help greatly appreciated

Hi,
I’m surprised to hear that you are having trouble with a Iwata gun, perhaps there is some gunk caught in the cap or paint passages? Although I guess everything wears out eventually.

From what I’ve heard a Star suction feed gun would be perfect for spraying acrylic. I’ve not used one myself but I know of a few ‘DIY’ers’ that swear by them and I don’t believe the gravity feed guns are essential when using acrylic. Certainly with two-pack they seem to give a better result but suction feed guns work fine for acrylic.

The nozzle size recommendation varies a lot between paint manufacturers and usually there is info on that on the label of the tin. Failing that, a call to where you bought the paint from might be a good idea. I don’t want to give you false information but I believe that a 1.6mm nozzle is good for most paints. I use a 1.6mm tip with acrylic with good results but I suggest you check with the paint manufacturer first.

The mixing ratio for acrylic is one part paint to one and a half parts thinners. This seems to be uniform across all manufacturers.

The three cylinder compressor you talk about should be up to the job I imagine, as long as it had a capacity of at least 10 cfm (cubic feet per minute). Anything under this and the pressure at the gun won’t be very consitent and the compressor will be working constantly to keep up.

The best method for spraying seems to be to start with the flat panels first, i.e. the roof, then the bonnet and bootlid and then start on the sides. If you start with the sides first you end up with a lot of overspray on the flat panels and once this overspray is painted over it can make the job look pretty crappy!

I hope this has helped somewhat, as I said in the article I’m no expert but there is nothing better than the satisfaction that comes with spraying a car yourself. Good luck.

Regards,
Craig

Thanks Craig your help has been Fantastic i will send pics of before and after when i have finished
Kind regards Anthony

Great info and keep up the acrylic paint jobs

Cheers for that Col!

Craig, I am painting a 92 camry for my son’s first car. I sprayed a cheap car for myself about 25 years ago so I’m a bit rusty. On one of the entries on your site there was mention of using acrylic for the metalic colour and letting the thinners dry right out before clear coating with 2 pak, after sanding the colour coat. Is this a good idea? what’s the minimum saftey gear you need to do the clear – is a carbon filter mask and eye coverage sufficient or do you have to go big time on the safety gear? I could probably get a reasonably neat job of the colour using acrylic and this would get me the gloss level and stone chip resistance.

Hi Barry,
The recommended safety gear for any 2-pak paint is a full suit and continual fresh-air helmet, but obviously some people take the risk and use a mask and eye protection like what you mentioned. Just personally I don’t think it is worth the risk!

Certainly using a 2-pak clear over acrylic colour would give the car a very ‘hardy’ surface but from my experience with acrylic clear it also is quite hard wearing and chip-resistant.

This is only my opinion of course but I think the health risks far outweigh any benefits of using a 2-pak clear, unless of course you have access to the right safety equipment.

Also spraying 2-pak is quite a bit different to spraying acrylic (2-pak is a lot less ‘forgiving’!) and if you are comfortable with the acrylic I would be sticking with that.

I hope that helps and good luck with the Camry.

Regards,
Craig

Thanks craig. I think I might do that.

Cheers mate.

No problem, best of luck with it.

Regards,
Craig

Hi Craig,
Thanks for the hints,geart, could you point me in the right direction to get the water filter that you mentioned in one of your video clips, it looks good. I think you called it “manticka”, but not sure.

thanks,

Baz

Really helpful stuff….now can you please tell me about enamel paints??I painted my car but at curves…when the sunlight is out…it just shines weird…and looks bad…although I havnt put on clear coat…..What do you think?

Hi Bazz,
I’m not very familiar with enamel paints I’m sorry. I’ve done a respray with two pack enamel but as far as the properties of the paint or possible problems I’m not up to speed. Perhaps a chat with your paint supplier might shed some light on it for you.

Regards,
Craig

hi just wanting to know the step by step to respray a car panel using arcylic

i have everything preped and ready to go but just abit confussed on the painting

1 when spraying with arcylic do i wet sand inbetween coats

2 spray 2 coats then add clear coat

any help or a step by step quide will be very useful im hopeing to get the color just right to match the rest of the car

Hi Ray,
I will try and answer your questions as best I can, but please keep in mind that I’m not an expert and that this info comes from what I have learnt over the years doing respray’s for myself and some friends.

Wet sanding between coats is a really good way to get a nice flat, glossy finish. Obviously this takes extra time when waiting for the paint to dry, rubbing it down, drying everything out and on to the next coat. Personally I only do it when a really good finish if required and I know of a number of people that simply lay all the colour coats down, throw a few coats of clear over the top and then cut and polish the paint with an electric buffer and while this can look ok too, in my opinion the finish is never quite the same as when you wet sand between coats.

So please yourself on that one, if you have the time and you are looking for a really good finish then I would recommend it, otherwise spraying all the coats and then buffing the paint can work too.

With regards to the number of coats, I like to get a minimum of two coats of colour on before applying the clear and if you decide to go with wet sanding between coats I suggest that you go with three coats of colour because even though you are using a light sandpaper (1200 or thereabouts) you still remove some of the paint in the sanding process and you might find two coats a little thin.

Two coats of clear over the colour should be fine. If you decide to cut and polish the panel with an electric buffer after all the coats are on just be careful along the edges as it is easy to ‘burn’ through the paint.

Getting the colour to match the rest of the car is really a fine art, certainly if you put some time into it you will be able to get the same ‘texture’ or ‘look’ of the existing paint but if it is even the slightest bit faded you will more than likely have trouble actually colour matching the new paint. Even some of the best spray painters around have trouble getting colour matches perfect so I honestly can’t advise you on the correct way of doing this!

Good luck and if there is anything else you need to know shoot me an email and I’ll do my best to answer it for you.

Regards,
Craig

i am touching up amondeo with acrilic paint and lackure i found coments helpfull

i am wondering if their was any heavy wax that would polish base coat acrylic with out using any laquer it would make things a lot easier thanks for all help

Hey Sean,
You could use any ‘cut and polish’ type product to polish up your basecoat, however if your colour is metallic it will need a couple of coats of clear laquer to protect it and to get a good shine out of the surface.